6.5 Creedmoor: Hand-Loaded Nosler 129g ABLR and Hornady 160g Round Nose Deer Hunt Combo? Update at 150 yards

On my northern Maine deer hunt this fall,  I want options.  I am sold that my Weatherby Vanguard 6.5 CM with my Hornady 160 grain round nose is great for a shorter range woods hunt. The round nose has more knockout punch inside of 100 yards and is not as deflectable in brush as a spitzer. However, it limits me to just short range of say 150 yards.

Ok, suppose I am in an elevated stand that overlooks a clear-cut that is 300 yards of open stumps and out walks a wall hanger buck at 280 yards.

With just the 160 grain set-up, I would not be able to attempt a  shot.  Accordingly, I loaded up some 129 grain Nosler AccuBond Long Range bullets that I had in my cupboard to see where they would impact my 160 grain round nose scope set up at 100 yards. Guess What? The 129 grain heads hit the exact same spot as the 160 grain heads. What? Yes they did! What does that mean? It means that I can use either bullet at closer range but, more importantly, it means that I can use the 129 grain Nosler ABLR for longer range open shots with minor elevation adjustments. Wow!

I hand loaded the 129 grain Nosler ABLR’s with a near-max load of Hodgdon H4350. COL was set at 2.75 inches.  The bullets exit the barrel at just over 2800 fps and group at 1 MOA at 100 yards. I put the data into JBM Ballistics Trajectory calculator. And if I adjust the elevation to 1.8 inches high at 100 yards it is basically zeroed for 200 yards. My maximum point blank range (MPBR) is 280 yards. At 280 yards, as seen below, that 129 grain bullet delivers 1500 ft-lbs of energy. Plenty for a big whitetail deer.

UPDATE: After writing this article, I bench-rested one cold shot of each load at 150 yards with a 100 yard zero waiting 10 minutes between shots and degreased the already clean barrel at each shot. The 129 grain Nosler ABLR was dead center low by 1 inch. The 160 grain RN Hornady fell just over 2 inches from dead center. Both bullets were just over an inch apart.

Honestly, I think it is astonishing that both a light and heavy bullet of different head designs and loaded with different powders, different speeds/ballistic coefficients and cartridge overall lengths can be so close to one another, essentially striking the same spot out to 150 yards. I think a clean barrel that has been solvent degreased contributed to the accuracy of these cold shots as well and eliminated a barrel cleanliness variable. Gravity and the aerodynamic drag (BC) of the round nose beyond 150 yards will make it fall faster (19 inches) and lose deer killing energy at 300 yards. The 129 grain Nosler ABLR will lose little energy, and drop 7.5 inches at 300 yards. And can reach beyond 400 yards with sufficient energy as seen in the 129 grain data below. Which bullet do you think, inside of 100 yards will deliver more energy inside the deer? I think the round nose wins that one. But from say beyond 150 yards the 129 grain Nosler takes over the most energy delivered inside the deer. 

See the JBM Ballistics Output Data below. https://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi

 

Output Data
Elevation: 5.314 MOA Windage: 0.000 MOA
Atmospheric Density: 0.08269 lb/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1073.7 ft/s
Maximum PBR: 280 yd Maximum PBR Zero: 239 yd
Range of Maximum Height: 135 yd Energy at Maximum PBR: 1549.1 ft•lbs
Sectional Density: 0.264 lb/in²
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 2810.0 2.617 2261.4 0.000 0.0 ***
25 -0.2 -0.9 0.0 0.1 2764.4 2.575 2188.6 0.027 0.9 3.6
50 0.7 1.4 0.2 0.3 2719.3 2.533 2117.8 0.054 1.9 3.6
75 1.4 1.8 0.4 0.4 2674.7 2.491 2048.9 0.082 2.9 3.7
100 1.8 1.7 0.6 0.6 2630.6 2.450 1981.8 0.110 3.9 3.7
125 1.8 1.4 1.0 0.8 2586.9 2.409 1916.6 0.139 4.9 3.7
150 1.6 1.0 1.4 0.9 2543.7 2.369 1853.1 0.168 5.9 3.8
175 1.0 0.5 2.0 1.1 2500.9 2.329 1791.3 0.198 7.0 3.8
200 -0.0 -0.0 2.6 1.2 2458.6 2.290 1731.1 0.228 8.0 3.8
225 -1.3 -0.6 3.3 1.4 2416.6 2.251 1672.5 0.259 9.1 3.9
250 -3.0 -1.1 4.1 1.6 2375.1 2.212 1615.5 0.290 10.2 3.9
275 -5.1 -1.8 5.0 1.8 2333.9 2.174 1560.0 0.322 11.3 3.9
300 -7.5 -2.4 6.1 1.9 2293.2 2.136 1506.1 0.355 12.5 4.0
325 -10.4 -3.1 7.2 2.1 2252.9 2.098 1453.5 0.388 13.6 4.0
350 -13.7 -3.7 8.4 2.3 2212.9 2.061 1402.5 0.421 14.8 4.0
375 -17.5 -4.4 9.7 2.5 2173.4 2.024 1352.8 0.455 16.0 4.1
400 -21.7 -5.2 11.1 2.7 2134.2 1.988 1304.5 0.490 17.3 4.1

 

22-Jul-21 07:55, JBM/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi

Even if I don’t make any adjustment to the scope for the 100 yard zero using 160 grain scope setup , I am only 3.5 inches low at 200 yards with the Nosler, still in the kill zone, but I need a steady field rest to make those distant shots. I have a walking stick with a pop up V  rest that I have used before from an elevated stand that works well. I used it similarly from an elevated stand to take a lone spike buck at near to 300 yards a few years back. It looks like I will take both bullets on this hunt. Brush hunt with the Hornady RN and Clear-Cut hunt with the Nosler.

Good Hunting!

©Copyright 2021

Turning Point USA’s Kendall Jones writes: Arizona Bans Trail Camera’s

https://www.tpusa.com/live/arizona-bans-trail-cameras 

Kendall Jones is a hunter, conservative and a member of Turning Point USA writes:

“Well, the votes are in, and trail cameras will be banned in the state of Arizona starting January 1, 2022… It is sad to see, read more at the website above.

**************************************

New Hampshire Rifleman’s Editor Ed Hale writes; Here in New Hampshire there are  a few hunter restrictions but game cameras and trail cameras are used for wildlife watching conservationists, wildlife photographers and observers as well as hunters. See the high tech article below from New Hampshire Wildlife Journal PDF File. Thanks NHFG!

Click to access hitech-wildlife-watching.pdf

 

Win 270 Articles in 1960’s made 30 Caliber Owners Want A .270 Winchester for its Mild Recoil – Jump to the 6.5 Creedmoor of Today

The 6.5 Creedmoor gets nocked around today by some gun writers but it is still standing because it delivers a big game bullet weight at long distances with mild recoil. As a boy and young hunter in the 1960’s,I read many of the articles  Professor Jack O’Connor had written for Outdoor Life  magazine, about the .270 Winchester and his beloved mild recoiling 130 grain bullet hand loaded with IMR 4350 or H4831 on deer, bear and moose.  As I recall velocities at the muzzle were 3100 fps or even 3200 fps.

After all is said and done, Jack, I recall, always reiterated that shot placement was key. That meant that the hunter was capable, under rifle recoil, of placing the bullet in the so called “boiler room” of the lungs often clipping the heart in the process.

Part of Jack’s art of story telling, imbedded that threaded thought of less recoil to increase accuracy. And that stuck in my mind as  it did for thousands of hunters.

My first purchased rifle was a used Savage .270. It was a great rifle. I killed my first 8 point buck with it in Southern NH back in 1975 and I hand loaded the bullets recalling they were Sierra 150 grain bullets loaded with IMR 4350 and traveling modestly around 2720fps out of the muzzle. I sold the .270 Winchester rifle years ago for a new Compound Bow instead. Yes, I have a life long love affair with recurves and compound bows too. Another Story!

Later I purchased a Ruger .338 Win Mag for a future African Hunt.  I had trained myself to handle heavy recoil! And more recently, in 2012 bought the Ruger M77 African in .375 Ruger. I love it for really big game like big Bull Moose. Ok, I digress, back to the Creedmoor. 

Today, my Weatherby Vanguard in 6.5 Creedmoor can shoot a hand loaded 160 grain bullet at muzzle velocities at 2635 fps and 150 grain bullets at the same velocity as when I hand loaded the .270 Win so many years ago. If Jack were alive today he would still love his .270 Winchester but acknowledge that shot placement was key.

Jack was a hunter, not a target shooter. But it was the target shooters that created the 6.5 Creedmoor because it had less recoil yet could still shoot accurately at distances out to 1000 yards and hit steel at 1500 yards, and not punish the shooter, taking multiple shots yet do so with hunting weight bullets of 130 and 142 grains just like the .270 Winchester.

I recall that Speer offered a .270 Win 170 grain round nose bullet but was later dropped as sales soared for long range spitzer bullets just as they are today.

The long range craze is still evident but I suggest common sense prevail and keep shots where the hunter is confident of a kill. Sure, practice at long range in different terrain but remember that your body adrenaline and excitement are not as present shooting targets. Someone said, run 100 yards as fast as you can then shoot, so you can mimic the adrenaline rush. As a young man, I often had adrenaline rushes just in expectation of seeing big game. I often think to myself, “love the adrenaline rush,  but learn to control it too.”

Often missed by some hunters who buy a new rifle, is having a state-of-the-art recoil pad to absorb as much as 50% or more of the felt recoil.

Well, I believe today we have the .270 with a metric name instead, as the 6.8mm but with a different twist rate than the .270.

If I had a walnut stocked custom .270 Winchester from years ago, I would likely still have it and hunt with it and protect it as I do for the Creedmoor for its mild recoil and terrific delivered energy.

Good Shooting!

© Copyright 2021

 

 

6.5 Creedmoor: Hornady 160 grain RN Load Data -Update On Seat Depth to Tighten Group

It has been noted by African big game hunters that round and flat nose bullets, at moderate velocities and ranges under 150 yards, provide two important key killing parameters for big game hunting. First, round and flat nose bullets hit like a hammer, and deliver more energy on entrance and throughout the bullet path than a traditional jacketed spitzer. More often dropping game instantly. Secondly, it has been observed that round and flat nose bullets, at moderate velocities, tend to remain on the same path and not be deflected as easily as spitzers. For those reasons, I like round, flat nose, and semi-spitzer for short range brushy conditions like across Northeastern USA.

The 6. 5mm Hornady 160g is a true round nose with a worked up max load of 43 grains Winchester 760 powder delivering 2635 fps (24 inch barrel) via Labradar delivering a whopping 1879 ft-lbs at 100 yards per JBM Ballistics.

No pressure signs in my rifle, recalling that each rifle is different, so don’t assume that your rifle can handle this heavy load.  The Ballistic Coefficient is expected to be low, with round nose creating drag,  at .283 G1 BC. But its Sectional Density is a whopping .315 and that translates to best-of-the-best in penetration and mushrooming with the round nose. JBM Ballistic data for the 160g below out to 400 yards. The 160g delivers deer killing energy out to 300 yards. Nice! Even nicer is  a 1.2 inch Cold barrel 4 shot group below.

I shot targets in each quadrant and below is the sum of 4 shots, marked in pencil, at 100 yards with a cleaned and solvent degreased bore. I swabbed the bore with each shot with solvent degreaser, and waited 10 minutes between shots. The very first shot was the low 6 o’clock bullet. 

UPDATE-  Seating Depth resulting in a COL of 2.65 inches later was determined to significantly tighten 3 shot cold bore group to 1/2 inch. This round nose bullet apparently needs more space away from the rifling.

JBM Ballistic Calculated Table for 160 grain Round Nose Hornady below. Great power for brushy terrain short range with plenty of smack down energy. 

Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 2635.0 2.454 2466.3 0.000 0.0 ***
50 -0.0 -0.1 0.3 0.7 2464.3 2.295 2157.1 0.059 2.1 4.0
100 -0.0 -0.0 1.4 1.3 2300.1 2.142 1879.3 0.122 4.3 4.1
150 -1.6 -1.0 3.3 2.1 2142.2 1.995 1630.1 0.189 6.7 4.2
200 -5.1 -2.4 6.1 2.9 1990.5 1.854 1407.4 0.262 9.2 4.4
250 -10.8 -4.1 9.8 3.7 1845.2 1.719 1209.4 0.340 12.0 4.6
300 -19.1 -6.1 14.7 4.7 1706.8 1.590 1034.8 0.425 15.0 4.8
350 -30.3 -8.3 20.7 5.7 1576.2 1.468 882.5 0.516 18.2 5.0
400 -45.1 -10.8 28.2 6.7 1454.3 1.355 751.3 0.615 21.7 5.2

Good Shooting!

© Copyright 2021

Reloading Data Sites to Remember

For those who do research on line for hunting bullet load data you may already be aware of load data from the following sites from a powder perspective and a bullet perspective as well. Enjoy!

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center   

The second site is Alliant Powder and similarly has rifle, pistol and shotgun load data.  https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/index.aspx

Nosler has a load data site too for rifles that has great data for Nosler bullets. Click the Load Data below. 

https://load-data.nosler.com/

Speer also has rifle load data for Speer bullets below.

https://reloadingdata.speer.com/SpeerReloading/Rifle

Hornady has load data that has not been published in their handbook yet so it is limited.  In fact, the Hornady handbook #11 has loads and powders not shown even in their limited load data site.  Note: Hornady’s 11th Edition Handbook is specific to Hornady bullets. 

https://www.hornady.com/support/load-data/

There may be other sites I have not highlighted here but these sites cover much of the rifle load data except for companies that will not fully publish and desire you to purchase their handbook. 

Sierra has a limited load data site. 

https://sierrabullets.wordpress.com/category/load-data/

 

Cold Barrel Hunting Rifle Shots Only Count

More and more we see a clean barrel bench rest “cold shot” shoot higher an inch or two and then as the barrel warms the shots group lower and tight. So some shooters call the first shot a flyer and are happy with the other group and adjust the scope for the group. Not so fast, if you are hunting, it was that first shot that counted. Two things are happening here. First is a clean barrel perhaps with some lubricant or cleaning agent adhering to the barrel affecting the cold shot. Second is the cold barrel shot itself. Veteran hunters advise taking a fouling shot or two and then with a cold barrel shoot for group marking the first shot as the one that counted and adjust the scope accordingly. That works with recent fouling shots and is my method. However, a recent article below experimented with fouling shots to find that they work. But the experiment also included a clean barrel that was finished with a barrel degreaser to remove any lube or residue and fired a cold barrel shot.  Check it out. We may learn something here.

https://www.outdoorlife.com/how-to-shoot-straight-with-cold-barrel/

Good Shooting!

 

Monolithic Expanding Alloy Bullets Great for Hunting

For those of us who love experimenting, the monolithic alloy hunting bullets made by Nosler and Hornady are great choices for hunting short range or long because the bullets maintain up to 95% of their weight and leave no lead behind. 

I resist shooting soft all copper bullets as they tend to create copper fouling that is hard to remove. 

Nosler’s Expansion Tip aka the E-Tip is a copper alloy bullet that is harder than all copper bullets and leaves your barrel fouled as normal gilding copper jacketed bullets do. I like that because having hard to remove heavy deposits of soft copper can create confidence issues when I test a bullet for group. Was it the bullet, the powder, seating depth or the copper fouling I can’t get out of my barrel from shooting soft copper? 

Nosler offers the E- Tip for many calibers. I have experience taking a 300 pound boar with its thick shield  and the 30 caliber E-Tip devastated the boar.

The exit wound below!

 

The Hornady GMX (Game Expanding) bullet is another fine spitzer style bullet that has a polymer tip to initiate expansion like the Nosler E-Tip.  They offer a vimeo that I can’t show you here unless you go their website.

Quote they state:

“Featuring a long, sleek profile with cannelures, the design reduces overall bearing surface and drag, while achieving some of the highest ballistic coefficients from monolithic, non-traditional bullets. Initiating expansion upon impact, the hard polymer tip drives into the hollow cavity at the front of the bullet, creating a mushroom-style projectile as it travels through the animal. Fully California compatible and appropriate for use in areas requiring the use of non-traditional bullets, GMX® is ideal for any sized game, from antelope to moose.”

https://www.hornady.com/bullets/rifle/30-cal-308-180-gr-gmx#!/

 

I have not tested the GMX on game yet but it is reported to be highly successful in expansion critical to delivering tremendous energy inside game as its petals expand just like the Nosler’s.

Check them out!

©Copyright 2021 Game Images.

 

 

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Hunter Value of Hornady 6.5mm 160 grain InterLock Round Nose Loads in Forest Terrain

This 6.5mm InterLock® Round Nose was designed for shorter ranges say under 150 yards in forest terrain on deer, bear and even moose. This round nose, maximizes delivered energy (like a hammer) more so than a spitzer for the same distances.  With some luck,  I did find some bullets on-line and made a purchase. One of the outstanding attributes of heavy 6.5mm bullets is that the Sectional Density (SD) of say 160 grain 6.5mm bullet is about 0.328. It translates to bullet penetration, in spades. Couple that wallop of penetration at the get-go with a round nose and you get a huge mushrooming bullet that acts like a plow that resists deflection and exits leaving a significant wound channel and blood trail that is easy to see.

I endeavored to find an accurate load for the Hornady 160 grain for my 6.5 Creedmoor rifle. I worked up and hand loaded 43 grains of WIN 760 powder per the 8th Edition Hornady Manual. and achieved a one inch group at 100 yards delivering over 2635 fps. This powder produces one of the fastest and accurate loads.  This is slow compared to say a 130 grain spitzer traveling at 2900 fps but the slower, heavier 160 grain has far more penetration on larger big game. The Swede’s use it on their moose in the 6.5×55 Mauser cartridge that is very similar to the 6.5 Creedmoor! Just keep your shots short to say 150 yards.

This bullet fills a niche for shorter range big game and I hope it stays. It is a great New England round in the northern spruce of New Hampshire or Maine for those who hand load the 6.5, like myself.

I have found that Hodgdon has a helpful on line load listing for Pistol, Rifle, and Shotgun by going to the reloading data center at https://imrpowder.com/

Below is an article I have written on Flat Nose and Round nose bullets that adds to your understanding.

Flat Nose and Round Nose Bullets for Big Game

There are new powders to try too. Have fun!

Good Shooting!

©Copyright 2021